Foreign Policy Blogs

The Facts of Cap and Trade

I was interviewing a world-class expert on energy and the environment yesterday for a project I’m on, and the discussion came around to many environmentalists’ distrust of cap-and-trade and other modes of “market-friendly” environmental activity.  I was reminded of the video from Nathaniel Keohane, Environmental Defense Fund’s Director of Economic Policy and Analysis.  (It is a rejoinder to Annie Leonard’s popular – and misguided – misrepresentation of cap-and-trade.)  Folks:  If we want to save the planet then it is pretty important to remember that sustainable development incorporates economic viability in its essence.  Lots of hard-working, effective environmentalists know this.  See the World Business Council for Sustainable Development (WBCSD) for just one instance.

(from Clean Energy Works)

 
  • http://www.ukzn.ac.za/ccs Patrick Bond

    Bill, you have an influential blog because you back up arguments with evidence. But in attacking http://www.storyofcapandtrade.org as ‘misguided’ without saying why, you disappoint. (I was an advisor on the ‘script. Curious what you find to be the problem.) Speaking of disappointing, Dr Keohane’s video studiously avoids the critiques, so how exactly is it a rejoinder? (Aside from the initial use of the title Story of Cap and Trade, before they retitled after a complaint?)

    The main concern is that after all these years of trying carbon trading in various guises, it has conclusively shown to be economically UNviable. Surely you’re following evidence from the EU and the Third World CDMs?

    Cheers,
    Patrick
    University of KwaZulu-Natal Centre for Civil Society, Durban, South Africa

    • http://www.HewittComm.com Bill Hewitt

      Okay, Patrick, maybe I should’ve elucidated what I found wanting in your piece. I was, by the way, a fan of “The Story of Stuff,” so I guess I was just all the more disillusioned about how badly informed the cap-and-trade piece is.

      First of all, the holier-than-thou tone is off-putting in the extreme. But let’s go through some of the points:

      The world community certainly didn’t meet in Copenhagen for the first time on climate change. There have been many years of hard work, thought, and some serious commitments made by tens of thousands of people and scores of countries, international governmental organizations and nongovernmental organizations.

      Enron – which no longer exists – and Goldman Sachs have precisely nothing to do with formulating cap-and-trade. Sure, it’s a rhetorical device by you, but it fails badly.

      Not all “serious scientists” agree on 350 ppm. It’s probably a minority, with Jim Hansen being likely the most prominent. (I happen to agree with 350 or, as Lara Hansen has said, 287 ppm, the pre-industrial level.) But to assert some sort of scientific consensus on 350 is wrong.

      Burning fossil fuels is only 43% of the problem. There are a number of other greenhouse gases that need to be addressed.

      I’m glad that you think the cap part of cap-and-trade is great. It’s the key. But to reject the trade part is, well, just ignorant. Yes, there will be brokers. That’s what markets do. Markets, whether you like it or not, are extremely efficient. They – and Adam Smith would’ve told you this in 1776 – of course need to exist under some framework of regulation. Markets are not inherently bad as you would have us believe.

      In any event, “our planet’s future is not in the hands of ‘these guys.’” Governments regulate the carbon markets. Should it be careful regulation? You bet.

      By the way, what economists involved with the enormously successful US acid rain cap-and-trade program are saying it’ll never work for greenhouse gases?! What is the “growing movement” of cap-and-trade opponents to which you refer? The main opposition lies in the Republican Party that thinks that NO is the only policy alternative to anything the Obama Administration supports.

      Free permits! A giveaway? Not really. But you are guilty of a fairly extraordinary misapprehension by any number of groups that supposedly are thinking hard about these issues. This analysis of Waxman-Markey by Robert Stavins pretty well debunks that myth. (He has a similar analysis recently of Kerry-Lieberman.) Bottom line? “Thus, the totals become 79.9% for consumers and public purposes versus 20.1% for private industry, or approximately 80% versus 20% — the opposite of the ‘80% free allowance corporate give-away’ featured in many press and blogosphere accounts. Moreover, because some of the allocations to private industry are – for better or for worse – conditional on recipients undertaking specific costly investments, such as investments in carbon capture and storage, part of the 20% free allocation to private industry should not be viewed as a windfall.” The first phase of the European Trading System was, admittedly, a failure, because the EU allowed the utilities to double dip. They did get a cushion and were allowed to jack up prices. The ETS folks have since learned their lesson.

      The UNFCCC, from day one, stipulated the principle that the developed nations would bear most of the costs and burden of clean up and would transfer money and expertise to developing nations. That’s precisely what the Clean Development Mechanism does. The CDM will have dispersed nearly 1.8 billion bankable Certified Emission Reduction credits to the developing world by the end of 2012, not to mention having been the major stimulus, in many cases, for over two thousand quite effective and sustainable projects.

      Cap-and-trade would “supposedly” reduce pollution? Environmental regulators have been actually reducing pollution for decades throughout the world. You presume that environmental regulation doesn’t work. That’s just ludicrous. Oh, and why would it be hard to verify the reductions? Particularly for point sources, it’s relatively easy – we’ve been doing this for a long time for many pollutants.

      A “global cap,” for your information, is not being discussed. Again, it’s been long since stipulated that developed nations will set limits and developing nations will aim for targets. (It’s more complex than that, but that should do for these purposes.)

      Pre-emption of the EPA rule on GHG reduction by the legislation only happens in the event of a federal cap-and-trade law beyond what exists under the Clean Air Act. This pre-emption is not welcomed by many analysts and it’s certainly not welcomed by the states where some programs might also be pre-empted. I came from a conference today – of a number of extremely smart, committed and effective environmentalists including – shock – key government officials firmly convinced by the evidence of cap-and-trade’s success and its necessity for a federal and eventually international carbon market. Using an auction system for permits, the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) has been generating revenue – nearly $600 million to date – for clean energy programs for the participating states and is on track to reduce power sector carbon emissions by 10% by 2018. See this from the Center for American Progress. (You know how deeply in collusion they are with Enron and Goldman Sachs.)

      Oh, and one of the world’s leading proponents of cap-and-trade, Barack Obama, also has called for the worldwide elimination of fossil fuel subsidies. One does not preclude the other.

      So, it appears that a price on carbon does exactly what your video calls for: pushes energy use away from high-carbon intensity. Capping GHG is so not business as usual. This assertion is really a childish, knee-jerk, actually pretty reactionary perspective. If you don’t create a stick with the cap and the flexibility – the carrot in the trade – you make the move toward low-GHG economies more difficult, compounding the problem. Here are four reasons why cap-and-trade is the best approach. This is from one of the most respected environmental scientists in the world, Michael Oppenheimer, and a pretty world-class economist, the guy from the video, Nat Keohane.

      Sorry, but that’s the real story. Your video gets nearly everything wrong. You certainly may mean well, but facts count in this sort of conversation. That’s why your video is misguided.

  • http://www.ukzn.ac.za/ccs Patrick Bond

    Bill Hewitt on 21/05/2010 in 18:57

    BH: Okay, Patrick, maybe I should’ve elucidated what I found wanting in your piece.

    PB: Sorry Bill, I only just noticed this reply to my post when looking at this: cleantechnica.com/2010/06/08/five-good-things-cap-and-trade-has-done-for-you/

    BH: … The world community certainly didn’t meet in Copenhagen for the first time on climate change.

    PB: No one said it was the first time; the word used in the ‘script was ‘finally’ because nothing else had worked up to that point to address the crisis. By all accounts, the Copenhagen summit was an opportunity to change history, given how badly Kyoto’s emissions trading mandate was performing, and that Obama had replaced Bush.

    BH: There have been many years of hard work, thought, and some serious commitments made by tens of thousands of people and scores of countries, international governmental organizations and nongovernmental organizations.

    PB: Maybe so. Still, the underlying premise of Kyoto – that you can address a market problem (emissions externalities) with a (financial) market solution – is generally questionable; and in the case of emissions trading absolutely in doubt; and in 2009 (just months after world stock markets had lost half their value from 9 months earlier) absolutely absurd. And all that work put in since Kyoto in 1997 has achieved a ‘failed’ carbon trading pilot scheme in Europe (as you put it) and a rise in emissions – time to throw in the towel and try something new, perhaps?

    BH: Enron – which no longer exists – and Goldman Sachs have precisely nothing to do with formulating cap-and-trade. Sure, it’s a rhetorical device by you, but it fails badly.

    PB: You’re not reading closely enough. Here’s the ‘rhetorical device’, plus the footnotes in the ‘script at storyofcapandtrade.org: “Okay, meet the guys at the heart of this so-called solution. They include the guys from Enron (1) who designed energy trading, and the Wall Street financiers like Goldman Sachs(2) who gave us the subprime mortgage crisis.”
    (1) In an August 2009 report about Enron alumni in the carbon markets, the Financial Times offers not a hint of irony: “‘People who were attracted to Enron and its desire to open new and cutting-edge businesses are also likely to be attracted to the carbon market,’ says Lynda Clemmons, who started the emissions trading desk at Enron in 1994. It also innovated in the electricity, gas and coal markets, to which carbon is highly correlated, which makes former Enron traders particularly suited to trading carbon. ‘They bring a breadth of cross-product coverage that makes them natural candidates to look at emissions,’ according to one industry insider.” Uh oh, when the Financial Times offers me ‘natural candidates’ from Houston to help solve the climate crisis, I say, No Thank You! I’m sad because we had all hoped that the retrenched staff from Enron’s bankruptcy would go get a job, not continue playing those speculative financial games that caused so damage to Californians like me, and to the firms’ shareholders. (See Markus Sommerauer, ‘A strange alliance making profits for a cleaner cause’, Financial Times, August 5, 2009; and Solomon Lawrence, ‘Enron’s Other Secret’, Financial Post, May 30, 2009, network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/05/30/lawrence-solomon-enron-s-other-secret.aspx.)
    (2) For Goldman’s role in the subprime scandal, see Matt Taibbi, ‘The Great American bubble machine’, Rolling Stone, July 9-23, 2009. Taibbi warns, “Instead of credit derivatives or oil futures or mortgage-backed CDOs, the new game in town, the next bubble, is in carbon credits — a booming trillion dollar market that barely even exists yet, but will if the Democratic Party that it gave $4,452,585 to in the last election manages to push into existence a groundbreaking new commodities bubble, disguised as an ‘environmental plan,’ called cap-and-trade. The new carbon-credit market is a virtual repeat of the commodities-market cashino that’s been kind to Goldman, except it has one delicious new wrinkle: If the plan goes forward as expected, the rise in prices will be government-mandated. Goldman won’t even have to rig the game. It will be rigged in advance… This is a brand new commodities market where the main commodity to be traded is guaranteed to rise in price over time. The volume of this new market will be upwards of a trillion dollars annually; for comparison’s sake, the annual combined revenues of all electricity suppliers in the U.S. total $320 billion. Goldman wants this bill. The plan is (1) to get in on the ground floor of paradigm-shifting legislation, (2) make sure that they’re the profit-making slice of that paradigm, and (3) make sure the slice is a big slice. Goldman started pushing hard for cap-and-trade long ago, but things really ramped up last year when the firm spent $3.5 million to lobby climate issues. (One of their lobbyists at the time was none other than [Mark] Patterson, now Treasury chief of staff.)… The bank owns a 10 percent stake in the Chicago Climate Exchange, where the carbon credits will be traded. Moreover, Goldman owns a minority stake in Blue Source LLC, a Utah-based firm that sells carbon credits of the type that will be in great demand if the bill passes… Goldman is ahead of the headlines again, just waiting for someone to make it rain in the right spot. Will this market be bigger than the energy-futures market? ‘Oh, it’ll dwarf it,’ says a former staffer on the House energy committee. Well, you might say, who cares? If cap-and-trade succeeds, won’t we all be saved from the catastrophe of global warming? Maybe — but cap-and-trade, as envisioned by Goldman, is really just a carbon tax structured so that private interests collect the revenues. Instead of simply imposing a fixed government levy on carbon pollution and forcing unclean energy producers to pay for the mess they make, cap-and-trade will allow a small tribe of greedy-as-hell Wall Street swine to turn yet another commodities market into a private tax-collection scheme. This is worse than the bailout: It allows the bank to seize taxpayer money before it’s even collected… The moral is the same as for all the other bubbles that Goldman helped create, from 1929 to 2009. In almost every case, the very same bank that behaved recklessly for years, weighing down the system with toxic loans and predatory debt, and accomplishing nothing but massive bonuses for a few bosses, has been rewarded with mountains of virtually free money and government guarantees — while the actual victims in this mess, ordinary taxpayers, are the ones paying for it.”

    BH: … I’m glad that you think the cap part of cap-and-trade is great. It’s the key. But to reject the trade part is, well, just ignorant. Yes, there will be brokers. That’s what markets do. Markets, whether you like it or not, are extremely efficient.

    PB: Sorry for being ignorant, but after an education at Swarthmore, Wharton and Johns Hopkins specializing in development finance plus two years as a Federal Reserve employee plus many years policy and academic experience in South Africa, I’d say that financial markets, whether you like it or not, can be extremely inefficient. For example, they can overprice stock values by 100%, as we learned from September 2008-April 2009. Did you notice? How do you explain such wild swings in terms of ‘efficiency’, Bill?

    BH: They – and Adam Smith would’ve told you this in 1776 – of course need to exist under some framework of regulation. Markets are not inherently bad as you would have us believe.

    PB: No, financial markets for trade in pollution are indeed inherently bad. They allow mispricing of the asset in a systematic way, profiteering by polluters, scamming and gaming, power plays, more adverse consequences for climate victims in the Third World (from where I write), and distortions of democratic process. They distract us from the command-and-control emissions cuts we need to solve this planet-threatening crisis.

    BH: In any event, “our planet’s future is not in the hands of ‘these guys.’” Governments regulate the carbon markets. Should it be careful regulation? You bet.

    PB: Should there have been careful regulation of Wall Street and of deep offshore drilling in the Gulf of Mexico? ‘You bet.’ Has there been? No. Is this because state officials, an incredibly greedy, irresponsible private sector and huckster journalists led us all astray? ‘You bet.’ Is this still a problem with the fossil fuel industries, financiers, and the emissions markets? Do governments like Hungary reissue emissions permits illegally? Do billions of euros worth of VAT avoidance schemes distort the market? Has the EU EMS crashed five times? Did the UN have to ban its main CDM implementation agency for incompetence and fraud? Do proponents of cap and trade conveniently ignore these problems? You bet. You bet. You bet. You bet. You bet. And no, to your credit, you at least admit that the EU EMS has been a ‘failure’, kudos to you for honesty. But surely this record adds up as something to walk away from now, doesn’t it?

    BH: By the way, what economists involved with the enormously successful US acid rain cap-and-trade program are saying it’ll never work for greenhouse gases?!

    PB: Enormously successful? Not as much as the kind of command and control that the EU imposed or as the earlier SO2 tax. As for our pro-cap-‘n-trade economists who don’t believe it will work for CO2, you are not up to reading ‘scripts, eh. Ok, since you haven’t bothered checking footnotes in The Story of Cap and Trade script, here it is, from Jon Hilsenrath, ‘Cap-and-trade’s unlikely critics: Its creators – economists behind original concept question the system’s large-scale usefulness, and recommend emissions taxes instead,’ Wall Street Journal, August 13, 2009: “When he was a graduate student in the 1960s working to reduce pollutants, Thomas Crocker devised a cap-and-trade system similar to one being considered in Congress… ‘I’m skeptical that cap-and-trade is the most effective way to go about regulating carbon,’ says Mr. Crocker, 73 years old, a retired economist in Centennial, Wyo. He says he prefers an outright tax on emissions because it would be easier to enforce and provide needed flexibility to deal with the problem… The other, John Dales, who died in 2007, was also a skeptic of using the idea to tame global warning. ‘It isn’t a cure-all for everything,’ Mr. Dales said in an interview in 2001. ‘There are lots of situations that don’t apply.’ Mr. Crocker sees two modern-day problems in using a cap-and-trade system to address the global greenhouse-gas issue. The first is that carbon emissions are a global problem with myriad sources. Cap-and-trade, he says, is better suited for discrete, local pollution problems. ‘It is not clear to me how you would enforce a permit system internationally,’ he says. ‘There are no institutions right now that have that power.’ The other problem, Mr. Crocker says, is that quantifying the economic damage of climate change — from floods to failing crops — is fraught with uncertainty. One estimate puts it at anywhere between 5% and 20% of global gross domestic product. Without knowing how costly climate change is, nobody knows how tight a grip to put on emissions… Mr. Crocker says cap-and-trade is better suited for problems where the damages are clear — like acid rain in the 1990s — and a hard limit is needed quickly.”

    BH: What is the “growing movement” of cap-and-trade opponents to which you refer? The main opposition lies in the Republican Party that thinks that NO is the only policy alternative to anything the Obama Administration supports.

    PB: Ah, but who cares, it’s easier for you to ignore the existence of the progressive/green movement against cap and trade, e.g. the Durban Group for Climate Justice, Friends of the Earth International, and the Climate Justice Now! network (which had half the civil society space in the Bella Centre at Copenhagen). Try, for instance, durbanclimatejustice.org/

    BH: Free permits! A giveaway? Not really. But you are guilty of a fairly extraordinary misapprehension by any number of groups that supposedly are thinking hard about these issues. This analysis of Waxman-Markey by Robert Stavins pretty well debunks that myth. (He has a similar analysis recently of Kerry-Lieberman.) Bottom line? “Thus, the totals become 79.9% for consumers and public purposes versus 20.1% for private industry, or approximately 80% versus 20% — the opposite of the ‘80% free allowance corporate give-away’ featured in many press and blogosphere accounts. Moreover, because some of the allocations to private industry are – for better or for worse – conditional on recipients undertaking specific costly investments, such as investments in carbon capture and storage, part of the 20% free allocation to private industry should not be viewed as a windfall.” The first phase of the European Trading System was, admittedly, a failure, because the EU allowed the utilities to double dip. They did get a cushion and were allowed to jack up prices. The ETS folks have since learned their lesson.

    PB: Yes, really. Here’s my colleague Maggie Zhou’s reply to the argument that “those giveaways require utilities to pass on the savings to their customers in a way decoupled from energy consumption. The reason why this is false is b/c many (most?) states have undergone utilities deregulation, and the oversight on utilities is minimal to non-existent. And there are the revolving doors/fox guarding the hen house… so free allowances will most likely not result in consumer protection, or will not result in incentives for energy conservation.”

    BH: The UNFCCC, from day one, stipulated the principle that the developed nations would bear most of the costs and burden of clean up and would transfer money and expertise to developing nations. That’s precisely what the Clean Development Mechanism does. The CDM will have dispersed nearly 1.8 billion bankable Certified Emission Reduction credits to the developing world by the end of 2012, not to mention having been the major stimulus, in many cases, for over two thousand quite effective and sustainable projects.

    PB: Sure, CDMs are fine for the World Bank, Third World polluting corporations and Northern polluters which buy the credits – but not for the climate nor for a great many victims of damaging mega-dams (themselves major methane emitters), damaging methane-electricity landfill projects (as we have in Durban), damaging tree-planting land grabs and other damaging ‘false solutions’. Additionality is a notorious problem. A good example of ongoing CDM scamming is the attempt by the South African power producer Eskom to get additional World Bank funding on top of the $3.75 billion loan they just received which is mainly to build the world’s fourth-largest power plant. As a result of these kinds of destructive projects, the CDM – called ‘privatization of the air’ in my part of the world – is opposed by the most advanced climate justice advocates in the Third World; and indeed market mechanisms were even fought against in the 2009 climate debt debate by most African countries’ delegates.

    BH: Cap-and-trade would “supposedly” reduce pollution? Environmental regulators have been actually reducing pollution for decades throughout the world. You presume that environmental regulation doesn’t work.

    PB: Nonsense, we presume that command-and-control regulation will work, and that, as you admit with the EU prototype, market-based mechanisms won’t address this crisis properly. That’s precisely why we oppose cap and trade: it slows down implementation of an effective regulatory process.

    BH: That’s just ludicrous. Oh, and why would it be hard to verify the reductions?

    PB: Because the CDM and numerous other trading mechanisms make extremely complicated calculations about net reductions. They are so difficult to verify that the UN’s main verification agency was fired last September for gaming the system.

    BH: Particularly for point sources, it’s relatively easy – we’ve been doing this for a long time for many pollutants.

    PB: Read Crocker and Dales in the WSJ article above for the critique.

    BH: A “global cap,” for your information, is not being discussed. Again, it’s been long since stipulated that developed nations will set limits and developing nations will aim for targets. (It’s more complex than that, but that should do for these purposes.)

    PB: A ‘cap’ in colloquial terms would be the transition from targets to verifiable commitments. The world desperately needs a cap to bring us down to at least 350 ppm (and probably further). By pushing cap and trade, we’ll never get there.

    BH: Pre-emption of the EPA rule on GHG reduction by the legislation only happens in the event of a federal cap-and-trade law beyond what exists under the Clean Air Act. This pre-emption is not welcomed by many analysts and it’s certainly not welcomed by the states where some programs might also be pre-empted. I came from a conference today – of a number of extremely smart, committed and effective environmentalists including – shock – key government officials firmly convinced by the evidence of cap-and-trade’s success and its necessity for a federal and eventually international carbon market. Using an auction system for permits, the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) has been generating revenue – nearly $600 million to date – for clean energy programs for the participating states and is on track to reduce power sector carbon emissions by 10% by 2018. See this from the Center for American Progress. (You know how deeply in collusion they are with Enron and Goldman Sachs.)

    PB: CAP has its share of cap and trade hucksters, one of whom lost a serious debate on the issue to Daphne Wysham of the Institute for Policy Studies on The Real News last December: therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4631

    BH: Oh, and one of the world’s leading proponents of cap-and-trade, Barack Obama,

    PB: You’re not paying attention, are you. He’s been told by his handlers not to mention cap and trade, and to leave it out of his speeches. So Obama went from this kind of rhetoric – “What I’ve said is that we would put a cap and trade system in place that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else’s out there” (January 17 2008, San Francisco Chronicle) – to zero. As the New York Times reported (March 26 2010), ‘The concept is in wide disrepute… Obama dropped all mention of cap and trade from his current budget.”

    BH: … also has called for the worldwide elimination of fossil fuel subsidies. One does not preclude the other.

    PB: He breaks every promise he makes, doesn’t he. That’s why the US representative to the World Bank sad idly by when the World Bank made the $3.75 billion loan to Eskom for the world’s fourth-largest power plant in March. Obama will end up giving very passive support to Kerry-Lieberman cap and trade, in a dishonest way, and won’t do much about fossil fuel subsidies. Wall Street and Big Oil are too important for his re-election fundraising drive, we all know. If you are pinning your hopes on Obummer, there will only be tears.

    BH: So, it appears that a price on carbon does exactly what your video calls for: pushes energy use away from high-carbon intensity.

    PB: As the EU EMS experience shows, relying on carbon markets to set a high price and to lower carbon-intensity simply doesn’t work. The price crashes regularly, and has settled at such a low level as to make renewable investments uneconomic.

    BH: Capping GHG is so not business as usual.

    PB: Of course it’s not. It’s what we want, a genuine reversal of energy, transport, production and all other GHG emissions. And emissions trading sets back this cause because it lets too many gimmicks break the cap. What we need is the kind of action from EPA that they belatedly did in West Virginia in March: banned mountaintop removal using existing legislation. Since GHGs have finally been labeled pollutants, all it takes for Lisa Jackson is to get into higher gear and impose 2% annual emissions requirements for the 10,000 leading CO2 emitters, which is not such heavy lifting. We know she can do this, as the EPA threatens to implement its anti-GHG policy in 2013 (hmmm, what a curious date to start). I suspect that given the gridlock on Capitol Hill (thank goodness), more protest of the sort West Virginia activists have done over the past year is the only way to get the lazy slobs at EPA off their butts.

    BH: This assertion is really a childish, knee-jerk, actually pretty reactionary perspective. If you don’t create a stick with the cap and the flexibility – the carrot in the trade – you make the move toward low-GHG economies more difficult, compounding the problem.

    PB: If you give the kinds of carrots you are proposing to the likes of the Enron and Goldman gamblers who remain at the heart of the scheme, you get what Europe shows: multiple scams, market volatility and too low a price to be of any use.

    BH: Here are four reasons why cap-and-trade is the best approach. This is from one of the most respected environmental scientists in the world, Michael Oppenheimer, and a pretty world-class economist, the guy from the video, Nat Keohane.

    PB: Please don’t talk about world-class economists or I’ll bring out the likes of Larry Summers, for whom the ‘economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest-wage countries is impeccable’ (World Bank memo, 1991) and deregulating Glass-Steagall and other financial sector protections was just as impeccable. For every Oppenheimer of yours, we can find a James Hansen.

    BH: Sorry, but that’s the real story. Your video gets nearly everything wrong. You certainly may mean well, but facts count in this sort of conversation. That’s why your video is misguided.

    PB: You’re welcome to try your critique again, but this time, have a look at the footnotes to the ‘script and tell us where the facts are wrong.
    PS, by the way, if you think it is possible to argue that SO2 or CFC cap and trade is the reason for saving the Ozone hole, read this by Laurie Williams and Allan Zabel of the EPA: “What Worked for Acid Rain Won’t Work for Climate Change… Concurrent with inception of the acid rain program, the U.S. devised and deployed a different economic mechanism to meet Montreal Protocol commitments to reduce ozone depleting chlorofluorocarbon emissions. As then-EPA Administrator Reilly noted in his statement to the Montreal Protocol parties in June 1990: ‘On January 1, 1990, a new tax went into effect in the United States, a tax on the manufacture of CFCs. This tax exceeds in value the cost of CFCs themselves and it will rise steeply in the years ahead. . . . This added cost of CFCs sends a powerful signal: it says bring on the substitutes fast! And it reduces the comparative economic advantage CFCs would otherwise enjoy over the more expensive substitutes. This tax on CFCs has already caused the United States to reach the agreed targets for reduction earlier than required.’ As experience with the CFC tax demonstrates, a fee or tax that raises the price of a source of pollution above that of cleaner substitutes can help in quickly meeting reduction targets. Indeed, the CFC tax helped cut U.S. emissions of CFCs by 37% in one year, from 1989 to 1990. If high enough carbon fees are applied to fossil fuels to make fossil fuels more costly than clean energy within a known time frame, the entire economy will be stimulated by the rush to develop the most cost-effective substitutes. The CFC-tax example, rather than the Acid Rain cap-and-trade example, is the appropriate model for the problem we face with climate change… Fast and effective action by the U.S. can kick-start the global transition. Massive investment in clean energy can help revive our economy and restore our global leadership. We urge all Americans to speak out in favor of a carbon fee or tax approach. If we don’t, then less efficient and equitable approaches such as cap-and-trade will carry the day. For a more detailed look at these issues, see our paper, Keeping Your Eyes on the Wrong Ball.”

    • http://www.HewittComm.com Bill Hewitt

      Patrick – What part of the word “cap” don’t you understand? That, in my view, is the essential question for folks who question the efficacy of this approach. We are setting limits to GHG output. That’s what you want, what I want, and infinitely more important than what either of us wants, what the planet needs.

      To some specifics, briefly: If I gave the impression that I thought the ETS was a failure, then I didn’t phrase it right. I think the ETS has had some serious flaws but they are being corrected as we go along. The scheme itself, however, is essential to curbing European GHGs. When California, Japan, Australia, the RGGI, and others are tied in to a growing carbon market, then the impact will be even greater for all concerned. If, eventually, we have a robust international carbon market based on national caps, then those who choose to stay out of the business of GHG regulation, may well find their exports subject to carbon tariffs.

      Similarly, if we build out, improve and expand the CDM, we are going to have another truly powerful instrument for sustainable development. I’m of course aware of the CDM’s flaws to date, but I think you’re advocating a baby with the bathwater approach.

      I think the World Bank financing for the Eskom plant is a travesty and I’ve said so. We agree on that.

      Bringing the specter of Enron, Goldman Sachs, and Larry Summers onstage is really just a rhetorical trick. There are legitimate concerns, as you’ve stated and I’ve stipulated, about how markets are regulated. The elimination of Glass-Steagall was one of the most damaging acts by any government ever, and, yes, Bill Clinton and Larry Summers were at the switch. I don’t carry a brief for their venalities. However, if the alternative to a market system is state socialism, I’ll take the former. As I think I made plain in my previous response, lucid, thoughtful, tough and vigilant regulation is what the doctor ordered. (Maybe we’ll get something approaching that prescription for the financial industry out of Congress before July 4th. Will it be flawed? Count on it. But remember Le mieux est l’ennemi du bien.)

      I’m glad that you are so lettered an economist. Have you tried to have this sort of conversation with Robert Stavins or Nat Keohane? I’m just an old country tree hugger. Perhaps you can hone your arguments against their more expert economic counterarguments. I’d be interested to read the conversations.

      Last point. A price on carbon has been identified as essential by people and institutions ranging from Nicholas Stern and Paul Krugman, to the IPCC and the UNFCCC, among many, many others. It is also not the alpha and the omega. We need different technology policies ranging from renewable portfolio standards, feed-in tariffs, and tax incentives to support for low-GHG research and development, among others. We are getting all of these from many critical jurisdictions including cities, states, countries and intranational and international regional groupings, not to mention international development agencies, the World Bank’s misguided support of the Eskom project nothwithstanding. The third thing we need to address the looming climate catastrophe is a different view of how we should live our lives. Public transportation and denser communities, a wholly different approach to agricultural production – and what we eat, distributed renewables and significantly greater energy efficiency and conservation, are all components of “lifestyle” changes that we can and must deploy.

  • http://www.ukzn.ac.za/ccs Patrick Bond

    Again, apologies for slow reply.

    Bill, when you ask, ‘What part of the word “cap” don’t you understand?’, it’s the part of ‘cap and trade’ that entails such widespread fraud, double-counting, cheating, speculation and scientific uncertainty, that if you offset your increased GHG pollution against a great many CDMs, offsets and ETS carbon trades, then you’ll break the cap.

    Bill, to this – “if the alternative to a market system is state socialism” – no need for what in South Africa we call rooi gevaar, but yes, the alternative to the market is command-and-control prohibition, and that can be done in a rational way, bit by bit, to compel the largest 10,000 or so polluters to cut back each year by a couple of percent. That’s what is going to be required. Does the EPA have the power? Yes, now that GHGs are considered pollutants. When will Lisa Jackson start? After Obama’s re-election. Can we make her start earlier? Those WVans against mountain top removal have some lessons from a few months back, yes.

    Putting a price on carbon is fine if it works and if it doesn’t price poor people (and countries) out of their fare share. You know some economics, and you know that price elasticity data are not reliable for the huge sustained upswing in fossil fuel price that we need to generate reductions by utilities, transport and other fossil fuel users so as to permanently change behavior. There’s also the matter of social justice; where a gas tax has been applied, e.g. British Columbia, the lower-income long-distance commuters (given that cheaper land for housing is further from jobs) are adversely affected.

    Until these problems are worked out, the direct command-and-control strategies plus massive state investment in transformed energy, extraction, production, transport, consumption and disposal systems are required.

    On this query: “Have you tried to have this sort of conversation with Robert Stavins or Nat Keohane?”, yes, since 2004 the Durban Group for Climate Justice – http://www.durbanclimatejustice.org/ – has engaged all and sundry on the efficacy of emissions markets.

    My impression is that Stavins and Keohane studiously ignore our Durban Group critique. A search of the Belfer Center gives zero results but correct me if I’m wrong. The closest I could find was a reference to the Durban Group’s leading scholar:
    “Robert Stavins Says:July 7th, 2009 at 5:05 am
    I am not familiar with the work of Mr. Lohmannn, and so I will not comment on his assessment.”

    And certainly Keohane’s film was allergic to engaging in the arguments, pretending as if there were no objections to cap and trade. We released the film Story of Cap and Trade in December 2009 (I did a survey of the mainly self-interested critics a couple of weeks later, here – http://www.counterpunch.org/bond12172009.html ), and then Keohane stole the title for his January 2010 film, until we suggested that wasn’t cool. And an EDF lawyer called us about it in December but had zilch by way of rebuttals to the argument, just ‘we gotta do something!’

    As you probably know, most economists have this approach, when confronted with political-economy and political-ecology arguments.

    Cheers,
    Patrick

    • http://www.HewittComm.com Bill Hewitt

      Patrick, I’m glad to be having this dialogue because you obviously care very deeply about the climate crisis and are committed to finding the right formulae for successfully confronting it.

      Once again, regarding the cap, if you are lowering the cap toward a specific goal, say 83% reduction from 2005 levels by 2050 (see Title VII, W-M), then what’s the problem? Offsets – one of your big bugaboos – are limited by W-M, and probably wouldn’t be available in the numbers that some industries might want anyway. You are going to have finite, realizable reductions in GHG as a consequence of the cap. If some of these GHG reductions are being traded, you are still going to have a net reduction. I can’t tell you that every single ton of offset credit or tradeable allowance is going to be 100% verifiable, but I firmly believe that almost all of it will be, particularly in the US. I worked for 11 years for a state environmental agency and saw the system in action, in good political years for the environment and bad. Agencies empowered with good laws and good regs do their job; industry pays attention. Can agency enforcement be better? Of course.

      As to Lisa Jackson doing her job, I am frankly disappointed that you think she hasn’t. EPA has promulgated the endangerment finding, negotiated a whole new series of higher standards for vehicular emissions, rapidly advanced the requirements for comprehensive reporting of GHGs, and is moving forward to curtail emissions. EPA has done more in the last 18 months to put this country on a course to radically reduce GHGs, entirely absent new legislation, than has been done in the 30 years since the Charney Report. See this. We also have regional cap-and-trade programs moving forward, including for California – the 8th largest economy in the world.

      If you read this blog, you know that I am all for massive investment in transforming our energy system. It’s been happening in Europe, the US, East Asia and elsewhere, with public and private money – lots of it. We need to do this more and faster, including in the developing world. We agree that the Eskom facility is a travesty. My god, how much wind is there off Capetown, how much sun is there in South Africa and how much geothermal energy is there for the taking?!

      I don’t speak for Keohane and Stavins. They are very big boys and can represent their own views perfectly well. You and your colleagues should try to engage them in a formal process. Have a conference. Invite them. Invite the good folks from the Katoomba Group and JPM Chase Climate Care, among others.

      I really wish that smart folks like you in the progressive movements – where I have lived my whole adult life too, by the way – would stop monkeywrenching the politics of environmental finance and get on with the critical work of structuring a future that works.

Author

Bill Hewitt
Bill Hewitt

Bill Hewitt has been an environmental activist and professional for nearly 25 years. He was deeply involved in the battle to curtail acid rain, and was also a Sierra Club leader in New York City. He spent 11 years in public affairs for the NY State Department of Environmental Conservation, and worked on environmental issues for two NYC mayoral campaigns and a presidential campaign. He is a writer and editor and is the principal of Hewitt Communications. He has an M.S. in international affairs, has taught political science at Pace University, and has graduate and continuing education classes on climate change, sustainability, and energy and the environment at The Center for Global Affairs at NYU. His book, "A Newer World - Politics, Money, Technology, and What’s Really Being Done to Solve the Climate Crisis," will be out from the University Press of New England in December.



Areas of Focus:
the policy, politics, science and economics of environmental protection, sustainability, energy and climate change

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